INTERVIEW – M. Jirous and P. Placák

M. Jirous: If the communists had remained in power for 20 more years, it is now all over for Košice …

They both have had plenty of experience with the communist regime. As before 1989 also now they both call things by their proper names. They´re both saying it is now even more important that people know what was going on then. “The more we know the better we can kick against all those populistic, nationalistic and ´red´ methods of the commies in the past. ´Cause they still have their followers trying to use these methods now”, said Ivan Martin Jirous (64) and Petr Placák (44), the interviewed Czech samizdat writers who are, despite of a 20-year age difference between them, on the same wavelength.

Is this your first visit to Košice?
Petr Placák: No. I have already been here before. I showed up on several occasions under the communists. We had friends in Košice among the independent artistic circles. They kept in touch with the Prague scene. So we were travelling to Košice and they would come to see us to Prague.
Martin Jirous: This is my first time in Košice.

You lived at the times when borders were often discussed. Now you are living in a city not even a hundred kilometres away from Schengen. How do you feel about that? And how do you feel about the whole concept of borders?
Petr Placák: This is one of the best things that have happened after 1989 – dissolving of borders. It´s now quite hard to image what a nasty feeling it was to be living behind a barbed wire without permission to go no other place. Not even young people who wanted to see a lot, have some nice moments, you know. The only outland allowed to see was Slovakia. So I know Slovakia better than the Czech land. The fact that now I can get around the area from Košice to Lisbon without having to stop and show my passport to any twerp with a flat cap on is just fantastic.
Martin Jirous: I take it differently. It´s all the same to me: with or without borders. I still find myself Czechoslovak. The split of Czechoslovakia was a tragedy to me. So it makes no difference now ´cause were all in the European Union, even though I myself am no friend of the EU. I feel myself at home in Czechoslovakia, I don´t take notice of any other borders.

Our project advocates the idea that political borders are not cultural borders of Europe. Would you stand up for such an idea?
Petr Placák: Definitely. Political borders are always pre-fabricated while artistic borders emerge naturally.
Martin Jirous: This is for sure Central Europe, while Ukraine is not Central Europe although my feelings about Ukrainian culture and Ukrainian writers are nothing but positive.

You drew up the initiative known as No Speaking with Communists. How can we not speak with the communists, yet speak about the communism?
Petr Placák: We can be absolutely open and free of emotions and portray the era so that the people know what was going on then. The mechanisms that regime was using can be used again by someone else in the future. The more we know the better we can kick against all those populistic, nationalistic and ´red´ methods of the commies in the past. ´Cause they still have their followers trying to use these methods now. Young generation in the Czech Republic hardly follows anything about that time. I put out the magazine Babylon where we regularly do so-called oral history. We question personal observers of the communism who had a trying time and we present them in the Babylon. The magazine is distributed at universities so that the students could learn the whole story.
Martin Jirous: I can do nothing about this. This is up to the parents to handle. It is now already the fourth generation of communists growing up in the families that would shut up and keep going. They were party-liners even if they didn´t believe the ideology ´cause they were either profit–seeking or sheer cowards. Those never explained to their kids what the world about them was about. So what do we want from such kids now? My parents would always tell me where I lived. They would always call a spade a spade. So if some ´greens´ are now waving red flags in the public squares again, we should blame their parents. The kids learn nothing at school. The curriculum sucks, there is practically no history. They teach kids just perverted things like management and how to get involved in this global system. So no wonder the youngsters are half-assed. And it is not just their parents´ fault. It is also their grand-parents´ fault. They had not either taught their offspring to be honest.
Anyway, I believe there is always a certain rate of people who take interest in culture. Seven, maybe eight percent of young people are interested in cultural values. It´s just more difficult for them today than it was for us to get hold of the values and live up to them.

Underground could also be classified among the marginalised group of the then society. What do you think of the value of marginalised groups for the society?
Petr Placák: There are numbers of marginalised groups, and I am pretty clear in my mind about their subsistence in society. The attitude of society to marginalised groups shows if the society is free or not. This not only points to its democratic establishment, but also the inner freedom of the society. Marginalised groups are a signature of free society. Where the mainstream majority cannot run a dialogue with minorities, it is always a sign of a future failure of such society.

What do you think Košice can offer Europe under the European capital of Culture project?
Petr Placák: I can still feel the same multicultural phenomenon which Sándor Márai depicted in his novels. My friend Andrej Stankovič from the east of Slovakia is a nice and evident example to give: he carried about 15 different nationalities – Jewish, Hungarian, Slovak, and others. There is just this sense of cultural diversity here. And this single European culture of the same, common Antic and Jewish foundations is present all around here and is easier to notice here than, say, in Bratislava where the culture seems to be too Slovak in nature.
Martin Jirous: I like it very much here: the city centre with all those intact buildings not yet pulled down, but a few exceptions, those beautiful houses built in Art Nouveau and late-Empire styles, let alone Cathedral, which is tremendous on its own. I am very much glad to finally see it in my own eyes. So far, I have only known the Cathedral from postcards and book illustrations. Bratislava got into the Bolsheviks´ spotlight and they consequently ruined it. So the city´s genius loci was killed off. But Košice makes me feel that the former genius is still here and you can feel it. I am sure that if the communists had remained in power for 20 more years, it is now all over for Košice … I think Košice can offer Europe what has preserved of the bourgeois town. This is a nice town dripping with something cosy.

Roman Sorger

Petr Placák (1964) – Czech writer, lyricist, historian and publicist first used the pseudonym Petr Zmrzlík to publish his works. Being a skilled mechanic he has had several working class jobs. In 1985, he was accepted to the Czech University of Technology. For political reasons, he was not allowed to study though. He was among the key figures of the Czech literary underground publishing in samizdat, organising anti-communist demonstrations.
After November 1989, he worked at Nezávislé tlačové stredisko [Independent Press Centre], later at the periodicals Respekt [Respect], Necenzurované noviny [Non-censored Press], Český deník [Czech Daily], Český týdeník [Czech Weekly] and Lidové noviny [People´s Press]. Since 1995 he has been the editor-in-chief of the student´s political and cultural monthly Babylon and since 2001 he has been the editor-in-chief of the publishing house of the same name. In 1992-2000, he also studied history at the Philosophical Faculty of Charles University in Prague.
In 1990 through 1992, he was among the management of the royalist Koruna česká [Czech Crown]. He drew up the petition known as No Speaking with Communists and among the main organisers of the activities accompanying the petition. His début prose Medorek released in samizdat in 1985 was first published in 1990 by Lidové noviny Publishing. The work won the Jiří Orten Prize. Using the pseudonym Petr Zmrzlík he issued a book of poetry entitled Obrovský zasněžený hřbitov [Giant Graveyard Covered in Snow] in 1987. He lives in Prague.

Ivan Martin Jirous (1944) - Czech poet, publicist, artists, reviewer, distinguished representative of the underground known as ´Magor´ [Nuts]. He studied Art History at Philosophical Faculty of Charles University in Prague. He published his poems in periodicals, such as Sešity [Booklets] or Mladá tvorba [Young (Literary) Production]. As early as in the 1960´s, he became close with the underground band Plastic People of the Universe where he acted as an art director for years. For his disfavour for the communist regime he could not carry on literary activity. He changed jobs working as e.g. a night watchman and gardener. For his beliefs he got imprisoned for several times. He spent eight years in prison altogether. He is a signatory of Charter 77. In 1979, he was among the founders of the samizdat edition Vokno [Window]. Even after the breakdown of communism Jirous contravened the law, often for his disorderly conduct. He is referred to as a bullyboy and habitual drinker. He lives in Vysočina.

Resource: www.cs.wikipedia.org